tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post6011025459619763856..comments2024-03-29T05:33:43.878-04:00Comments on Murder is Everywhere: Panster vs Plotter: the Definitive AnswerOvidia Yuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05749549092493567689noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-88188989988739410462017-12-29T15:33:49.266-05:002017-12-29T15:33:49.266-05:00I'm a plotter. I tried to improvise, but I fel...I'm a plotter. I tried to improvise, but I fell more comfortable at outlining the story rayther than to write it on the fly.AliceNorthernLightshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04462871511541914849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-73682987562838755132016-10-25T15:28:33.171-04:002016-10-25T15:28:33.171-04:00Oh, Donis, you are welcome to them. If those guys...Oh, Donis, you are welcome to them. If those guys hadn't made me so mad, I would not have dug under their smug arguments until I got to the heart of the matter. Ah the energy that comes to a woman with her back up!!Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-22860053979112710492016-10-24T19:29:24.887-04:002016-10-24T19:29:24.887-04:00Amen, my sister. I start out with a destination in...Amen, my sister. I start out with a destination in mind, but thus far have always ended up somewhere totally different and infinitely more imaginative. p.s. I'm stealing your arguments for use at a later date.Donis Caseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15207228706777377242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-60883405071051167182016-10-24T17:12:06.414-04:002016-10-24T17:12:06.414-04:00I had to write a "treatment" to sell Blo...I had to write a "treatment" to sell Blood Tango as part of a two-book contract. I wrote three paragraphs which gave only the period and place, the fact that the dead body was an Evita lookalike, and that Evita would be a character in the story. All this turned out to be true, and it was ALL I knew at the time. That was enough to seal the deal. WHEW!Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-71753374861459774472016-10-24T17:02:51.275-04:002016-10-24T17:02:51.275-04:00Bro, thank YOU!! more ammunition for our side. I...Bro, thank YOU!! more ammunition for our side. It's I good thing I did not know all these names that afternoon, or I would have been sorely tempted to answer Mr. Bestseller's papal encyclical with a litany of literary saints. Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-91776485702226897892016-10-24T16:58:10.539-04:002016-10-24T16:58:10.539-04:00How nice of EvKa not to call you a nut job. It gi...How nice of EvKa not to call you a nut job. It gives me hope for civilization. <br /><br />On the subject of plotters v. pantsers, virtually everyone I know leans toward the panster side...just check out "Making Story," but I think the coup de grâce is administered by perhaps the most admired of all writers on writing. And I'm talking about the author of "On Writing," a book virtually all writers list among the two or three best of its ilk, Stephen King. He is a pantser par excellence who cannot understand how the plotters do it...though your final few lines may explain it.Jeffrey Sigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00718317707555064653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-57525455929408472322016-10-24T15:08:21.755-04:002016-10-24T15:08:21.755-04:00I've read other authors say that they've w...I've read other authors say that they've written nonsense for a "next book proposal" that the publisher accepted, and then the publisher didn't say a word about it when the delivered book bore NO resemblance to the proposal.<br /><br />I suspect there are cases where that wouldn't be the case, but I also suspect that it's generally true.Everett Kaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12371555243187874414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-31280248515911738232016-10-24T14:49:59.134-04:002016-10-24T14:49:59.134-04:00We once had to write an outline over two days for ...We once had to write an outline over two days for a contract. And it worked! The book was more or less based on that road map. We thought we finally knew how to write efficiently. Until the next book. ..Michael Sears (of Michael Stanley)https://www.blogger.com/profile/09886295534214542834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-44729048080045862022016-10-24T14:01:36.526-04:002016-10-24T14:01:36.526-04:00Absolutely! And a lot of the fun!Absolutely! And a lot of the fun!Michael Sears (of Michael Stanley)https://www.blogger.com/profile/09886295534214542834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-10878254609621182672016-10-24T13:52:30.284-04:002016-10-24T13:52:30.284-04:00Triss, thanks for that!!! What's good enough ...Triss, thanks for that!!! What's good enough for Faulkner, and Doctorow, and John Fowles is more than good enough for me!Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-7486717912804236072016-10-24T11:22:23.034-04:002016-10-24T11:22:23.034-04:00But Annamaria, why aren't you naming names? I ...But Annamaria, why aren't you naming names? I want to know who the writer was! :-) More seriously, I agree and it was well said. I end every book saying, "Never again1 all that wandering around. So inefficient. An outline next time." That lasts about 5 minutes. Faulkner, by the way, said (approximately) he begins every book the same way: two people are walking down an imaginary road and he follows, listening to what they say."Trisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058396345946250313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-36154084270987953592016-10-24T11:10:57.524-04:002016-10-24T11:10:57.524-04:00"Don't I sound like a complete nut job???..."Don't I sound like a complete nut job???"<br /><br />Not at all. That's Jeff's job...Everett Kaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12371555243187874414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-67404207314879774792016-10-24T10:34:56.882-04:002016-10-24T10:34:56.882-04:00Caro, I could not agree more. When I am immersed ...Caro, I could not agree more. When I am immersed in the story I am writing, I feel like it is coming to me whole, and all I have to do is type out what my characters are saying and doing. The result needs a LOT of sprucing up, but at first the story, for me, seems to be coming from a place just above my head and flowing down my arms and onto the keyboard. Don't I sound like a complete nut job??? Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-92149989404512861072016-10-24T09:55:20.134-04:002016-10-24T09:55:20.134-04:00That's funny. It's similar to what blocks...That's funny. It's similar to what blocks scientific progress for long stretches of time until there's a sudden 'breakthrough' that changes everything: people get locked into seeing the world through ONE set of lenses and thinking, "This is RIGHT. This is the ONLY way it can be!" Sort of like religion. :-) Until one day someone trips and smashes their glasses, and when they look up, they realize the world is a different color, and that the new color is okay.Everett Kaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12371555243187874414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-74062271477305825262016-10-24T09:53:01.965-04:002016-10-24T09:53:01.965-04:00Michael, at the bottom of a canyon with no way out...Michael, at the bottom of a canyon with no way out is the desperate condition that forces me to come up with something new and fresh and vivid. Necessity is still the mother of invention, yes?Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-56603892191157573862016-10-24T09:49:49.482-04:002016-10-24T09:49:49.482-04:00EvKa, you can see, I am sure, that what miffed me ...EvKa, you can see, I am sure, that what miffed me was the man's insistence, not only that writing and outline is the only right way, but that people who say they write without one can't be telling the truth. What?? At the end of the interview, he said that when he got to the end of his just-released thriller, he drastically changed his planned ending. I harrumphed very quietly. The woman next to me sniggered. I guess eventually in that book any way, he saw the light and threw away his map. But I bet he still believes that no one could write a novel without an outline. Harrumph. Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-28961143192468742382016-10-24T04:34:39.622-04:002016-10-24T04:34:39.622-04:00I am a plotzer ( not panzer, that's somethin...I am a plotzer ( not panzer, that's something completely different!), I am kind of half and half. Or neither. Then last week Editor wanted outline of next two books for negotiations of the financial variety. So How does a pantzer deal with that? I stuck something down, like making soup - a bit of this, a bit of that.... we see what it tastes like in the due course of time. But I think the subconscious has already written it, the writer just hasn't realised it yet.Caro Ramsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08499318515241879831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-17281905326761416482016-10-24T03:02:36.085-04:002016-10-24T03:02:36.085-04:00I love your idea of being an explorer and a map ma...I love your idea of being an explorer and a map maker! I will certainly use that in future discussions on this topic. (Another saying is that every author steals what's needed from other authors.) It also explains why sometimes we find ourselves at the bottom of a canyon with no way to get out!Michael Sears (of Michael Stanley)https://www.blogger.com/profile/09886295534214542834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-43385720456395415102016-10-24T01:16:23.784-04:002016-10-24T01:16:23.784-04:00I was planning to make the same argument you did i...I was planning to make the same argument you did in your conclusion, only to find that you went ahead and made it just a couple of sentences later. Great minds. :-) Total agreement. It's all exploration of unknown territory, otherwise it's just a rehash.<br /><br />Go to a concert at Madison Square Gardens. Ask everyone how many got there by walking. Then ask how many got there by driving. Then ask how many got there by taking a cab. Then ask how many took the subway. Somehow, they all managed to get there. Which way was best?Everett Kaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12371555243187874414noreply@blogger.com