tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post571011132431605816..comments2024-03-28T22:01:11.059-04:00Comments on Murder is Everywhere: Hero or Villain: The Conflicted Life of Fritz HaberOvidia Yuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05749549092493567689noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-9834804580408954312022-12-27T11:17:45.035-05:002022-12-27T11:17:45.035-05:00Mr. Haber, was born a German Jew and designed a fe...Mr. Haber, was born a German Jew and designed a fertilizer to increase food production, which is still saving lives today. He did over see the use of his chlorine chemistry to kill 6000 soldiers in minutes! He may have thought it was humane to kill a great <br /> number in a short period of time and save his troops, rather than let them continue to shoot each other into submission! One can only speculate? However, he converts to Christianity during Hitlers rise, perhaps to save himself or his soul? Obviously, his wife taking her life to distance herself from him indicates her feelings of horror! We will all be judged one day. However, my consumption of a loaf of bread, in a sustainable way today, is related to him so, for that thank you Sir. I think a good man went bad then sought forgiveness. The pages of the Bible are filled with good men going bad and seeking forgiveness and repentance. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-17511496507128652742015-03-02T21:42:01.457-05:002015-03-02T21:42:01.457-05:00Annamaria, you have two complex issues going on at...Annamaria, you have two complex issues going on at the same time. One is the Faust-like personaolity of the scientist. Rarely are humanitarian concerns driving him. In fact, there has been a lot said about the similarities between a theoretical scientist and a drug addict. I would also take issue with the above about patriotism. The personality of a German Jew during Hitler's era will, I believe, have more to do with the need to prove "I am one of you," with belonging rather than patriotism. He sounds like a monster to me.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12558260338780425291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-54542868760961422802015-03-02T18:00:50.698-05:002015-03-02T18:00:50.698-05:00Jeff, I included some of his family background to ...Jeff, I included some of his family background to try to give a picture of him as person, not just a chemist. But I think it was the scientific challenge more than anything that drove him. He is an enigma, that is for sure. Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-30706458139604502092015-03-02T17:36:33.712-05:002015-03-02T17:36:33.712-05:00If you think about histories' great generals, ...If you think about histories' great generals, they all conquered and slaughtered in the name of glory. Glory for country, glory for themselves? Whom or how many died at their hands did not matter...as long as they won. Hubris, patriotism, and all their self-aggrandizing relatives have long been slaughter's handmaiden.<br /><br />What I wonder is when did Häber turn, and what brought him to lose his soul? Or was it simply the scientific challenge that drove him without regard to the practical consequences of his actions, ala "Bridge Over the River Kwai"?<br /><br />As to debating whether he benefitted or debased humanity, to my way of thinking, it all depends on who's doing the scoring--with the ultimate scorer trumping all of us.<br /> <br />Jeffrey Sigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00718317707555064653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-80026848338595820972015-03-02T17:12:03.269-05:002015-03-02T17:12:03.269-05:00Darrell James and I are already prom dates for the...Darrell James and I are already prom dates for the dinner. :( But I'm still available as a party favor, and otherwise free for the time I'm there. <br />Jeffrey Sigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00718317707555064653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-33911382114371317112015-03-02T13:00:26.064-05:002015-03-02T13:00:26.064-05:00S, Despicable is good word. If you recall, the Ra...S, Despicable is good word. If you recall, the RadioLab guys said what he lacked was self-doubt. He seemed to have no capacity to question the worth of his own actions. If they served his purposes, they were right. There is something sociopathic about such an attitude. Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-64880403449335397412015-03-02T12:44:08.810-05:002015-03-02T12:44:08.810-05:00I heard this Radiolab too!! I'm split about hi...I heard this Radiolab too!! I'm split about him, like you are. His activities during the war were so horrible that a part of me wishes he'd never lived...and yet, his other achievements saved more lives than the evil ones cost.<br /><br />Even so...I don't think saving one human life "pays back" for taking another. On balance, he's a difficult person to think about. On the whole, I think I find him despicable - the kind of person of you say "well, I'm glad he did some good in his life, but I cannot understand how he justified the evil."<br /><br />His life is definitely a cautionary tale against the evils of blind patriotism. Patriotism itself can be a wonderful, lovely thing - until and unless it makes you blind enough to cause suffering without conscience. Susan Spannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770560542416086762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-80755841582479196082015-03-02T11:36:24.995-05:002015-03-02T11:36:24.995-05:00Yes, Allan. I see him that way. When it comes to...Yes, Allan. I see him that way. When it comes to human values, he was blinded by science. Brilliant, but chilly in the extreme. In fact, his motivation for the ammonia process was, according to what I learned, to feed hungry Germans, not hungry human beings. And I imagine the challenge inherent in the chemistry is what drove him. Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-63260526855294045512015-03-02T11:32:32.073-05:002015-03-02T11:32:32.073-05:00I am definitely up for sharing an author table wit...I am definitely up for sharing an author table with Jeff. Jeff, I dare you to refuse publicly. ;) I am also up for other social moments and any meeting with Tim is a pleasure for me. Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-25785482591334956712015-03-02T11:23:16.780-05:002015-03-02T11:23:16.780-05:00Thanks for posting about Haber--like you, I'd ...Thanks for posting about Haber--like you, I'd never heard of him before. While his work in agriculture yielded great benefits to mankind, I doubt Haber was motivated by altruism. He strikes me as amoral, focused solely on science rather than any regard for human beings. Allan J. Emersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06066540739977912609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-86156796061240743452015-03-02T11:19:05.792-05:002015-03-02T11:19:05.792-05:00AmA, yes, we will meet soon (10 days or so). Are ...AmA, yes, we will meet soon (10 days or so). Are there plans? No. Expectation? Yes. :-) I'm hoping to get together with you and Jeff (yes, I'm a brave and daring soul) at one point or another or maybe two. I noticed in the last newsletter from Crimelandia that they're setting up (or offering) "Author Hosted Tables" for the banquet. They want there to be two authors to a hosted table, apparently (they say, "If you are an author and would like to host a table, first find another author to co-host with you, and then email Lucinda Surber for more details." I (and Sharon) would love to share a table with you and Jeff, but that, of course, would require agreement and consent from both of you, who might have other plans and ideas. But it's a thought. What do you think? Jeff? I'm hoping to get together with Tim for lunch or something, too, at some point.Everett Kaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12371555243187874414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-45520372751581987072015-03-02T11:01:24.536-05:002015-03-02T11:01:24.536-05:00EvKa, you wrote: "The great 'evil' of...EvKa, you wrote: "The great 'evil' of this story is "national pride," patriotism. It's an amoral "intellectual emotion" that leads people to do immoral things, because it creates a blindness against our shared humanity." I couldn't agree more. Patriotism and its weak cousin jingoism should be sins.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-40309871850180289522015-03-02T10:23:35.462-05:002015-03-02T10:23:35.462-05:00EvKa, I have always had trouble with patriotism as...EvKa, I have always had trouble with patriotism as an emotion. If I feel it at all it is for my city, which I can say I really love. There are other places I love as places too. I cannot agree more that national pride leads to more wrongs than it does rights.<br /><br />On another note, we will meet up soon. Are there plans?Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-20964709363079565192015-03-02T10:19:33.400-05:002015-03-02T10:19:33.400-05:00Thelma, AGREED! In the immortal words of Indiana ...Thelma, AGREED! In the immortal words of Indiana Jones, "Nazis, I hate those guys." Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-89152558219440267552015-03-02T10:05:09.454-05:002015-03-02T10:05:09.454-05:00Stan very well stated my exact thoughts. More pos...Stan very well stated my exact thoughts. More positive than negative, but oh, my, what extremes.<br /><br />Unfortunately, there's very little connection between intelligence and morality. You can have neither, one or the other, or both, two independent variables.<br /><br />The great 'evil' of this story is "national pride," patriotism. It's an amoral "intellectual emotion" that leads people to do immoral things, because it creates a blindness against our shared humanity.<br />Everett Kaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12371555243187874414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-13736551004263676972015-03-02T09:20:50.193-05:002015-03-02T09:20:50.193-05:00This is well done , but I confess anything about H...This is well done , but I confess anything about Hitler makes me see red!!!!!!! I saw some of the garbage from the Nazi submarines on our beach in Norfolk as a child and to this day - if I saw a Nazi uniform I'd turn into a wild savage! tstraw in manhattanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-1001964790453075642015-03-02T09:08:03.677-05:002015-03-02T09:08:03.677-05:00My sentiments exactly, Stan. It also occurred to ...My sentiments exactly, Stan. It also occurred to me that all that food accounts for a lot of world population growth. It's so difficult to love human beings and to know that there are way too many of us. Haber benefitted billions more people than he harmed, but I cannot see him as a great humanitarian--not when he devised such an UGLY death for those poor soldiers at Ypres and then rejoiced in it. Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-64680640109385971152015-03-02T06:03:33.834-05:002015-03-02T06:03:33.834-05:00Yikes! That's a difficult question. If I had...Yikes! That's a difficult question. If I had to vote, I'd say good - with severe blemishes. He didn't intend the cyanide gas to be used to kill Jews. Or maybe I'd vote bad - with exceptions. He used his knowledge of chemistry to create outlawed weapons and celebrated when they succeeded, but he also helped to increase the world's food supply. As I said, Yikes - what a decision to make. I abstain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com