tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post8978816769715299988..comments2024-03-28T08:30:57.453-04:00Comments on Murder is Everywhere: How Long is a Good Book?Ovidia Yuhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05749549092493567689noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-54556138599065378482017-12-13T13:55:13.658-05:002017-12-13T13:55:13.658-05:00Two of my all-time favorite books are Shogun and N...Two of my all-time favorite books are Shogun and Noble House. There is no way those books could be reduced to the word counts referenced above without decimating the stories. 'It takes what is necessary and no more' seems a good rule of thumb.BadFroghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00051102067870927677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-26823725648389537042017-12-07T06:03:07.105-05:002017-12-07T06:03:07.105-05:00I am amazed at writing that many words. At tops, I...I am amazed at writing that many words. At tops, I have written 1500 or so words. But I write peculiarly. I am very thorough, so I write long articles, then tweak and trim them until they're a reasonable length.<br /><br />I guess most authors write a certain number of pages or words a day and then take a break.<br /><br />Do you know Mark Twain's famous adage about when he wrote a long letter to a friend? He said sorry, I didn't have time to write a short letter.<br /><br />So, he wasn't into tweaking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-89165833760471679702017-12-06T06:14:57.316-05:002017-12-06T06:14:57.316-05:00I used to write nonfiction also, Kathy. When I fir...I used to write nonfiction also, Kathy. When I first began, I’d be writing articles at anything up to 5000 words. Towards the end, it could be as low as 500 words. Quite a challenge!<br />Zoë Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14065427744062846167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-73256090168053767172017-12-06T06:13:38.775-05:002017-12-06T06:13:38.775-05:00I find it difficult to estimate things with manusc...I find it difficult to estimate things with manuscript pages, as I use 1.5 line-spacing rather than double, and 12pt font – usually Times New Roman. However, because I'm in the UK my standard page size is A4, which is 210 by 297 mm (8.27 in × 11.7 in). I can’t remember the standard size of US paper, but I think it tends to be shorter and wider.<br />Zoë Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14065427744062846167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-77116711205530836182017-12-06T06:06:11.945-05:002017-12-06T06:06:11.945-05:00I've searched around on this subject, and it w...I've searched around on this subject, and it would seem you can work on 275 words per page as being a good estimate. So, a 300-page novel would be approx 82,500, 350 pages equals 96,250 words, and 500 pages comes in at 137,500. Ish, of course.Zoë Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14065427744062846167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-23277718481754197822017-12-06T06:03:14.526-05:002017-12-06T06:03:14.526-05:00Hi Stan. And did any of your readers comment about...Hi Stan. And did any of your readers comment about the reduction in length of your Detective Kubu novels? If not, then I would take that as a compliment on your storytelling abilities. You say more with less :)<br />Zoë Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14065427744062846167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-57526217115201778722017-12-06T05:57:38.673-05:002017-12-06T05:57:38.673-05:00Hi Jeff. I love a well-told story in a sparse pros...Hi Jeff. I love a well-told story in a sparse prose style. I thoroughly enjoyed the Dick Francis novels, too. You didn’t feel you were embarking on an epic, but they were always filled with interesting facts and a rollicking good read.<br /><br />I know what you mean about carrying the books around in a back pocket. On a trip a few years ago I took the George RR Martin canon with me to read – all in ebook format. Good job too, as they five-book GAME OF THRONES series comes in at 5216 pages, and a whopping 1,616,960 words. The weight of the paperbacks alone would have exceeded my luggage limit.<br />Zoë Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14065427744062846167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-41533558214007849582017-12-06T05:49:56.158-05:002017-12-06T05:49:56.158-05:00Hi Annamaria. I, too, was asked to write shorter, ...Hi Annamaria. I, too, was asked to write shorter, but it was always a suggestion rather than a demand. So hard to cut the guts out of a story. But I confess that I did enjoy the tighter confines of writing ABSENCE OF LIGHT at around 58,000 words. When I first started, there was much less information freely available about proposed novel length. I can’t remember where I got the figure of 100,000 +/- 10 per cent, but I’ve stuck with it for most of the Charlie Fox novels since, although I confess they’ve always been over rather than under 100k.<br /><br />I looked up the Harry Potter books, and while PHILOSOPHER’S STONE was a little over 77,000 words, the weightiest instalment, ORDER OF THE PHOENIX, was over 257,000! I wondered why I thought that book went on and on … <br />Zoë Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14065427744062846167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-45962915279166349372017-12-06T05:38:22.665-05:002017-12-06T05:38:22.665-05:00Hi Veronica. I agree that the story dictates its o...Hi Veronica. I agree that the story dictates its own length, and in these days of ebook publishing rather than print-only, the number of pages in a novel is less important than it used to be, but I often find that constraints encourage extra creativity. Some of the most creative writing I’ve read have been entries to the Flashbang Flash Fiction competition run as part of CrimeFest every year, which has a strict limit of 150 words.<br /><br />For my own work, I have to be realistic and admit that I am a writer of commercial fiction, not high literature. I do my damnedest to make sure that what I turn out is the best I can make it, but I see myself as a craftsman rather than an artist. Therefore, if I want to be competitive in a genre with certain accepted parameters, I will do my best to stick to those guidelines. There will always be outliers, but you can’t rely on being the exception to the rule.<br />Zoë Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14065427744062846167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-36789824921219930012017-12-06T05:24:26.374-05:002017-12-06T05:24:26.374-05:00Hi EvKa. I've always tried to write to the end...Hi EvKa. I've always tried to write to the end of the story and work the rest of it out afterwards, but I need an idea of the shape of the story arc when I begin, and that depends on the complexity of my outline.<br /><br />I love the Robert B Parker novels. The prose is very spare, but he says as much if not more in very few words. Hence his first Spenser novel, THE GODWULF MANUSCRIPT, is a lean 64,480 words, and Ace Atkins' latest continuation of the series, SLOW BURN, is 114,080. I confess I haven't read SLOW BURN, but it's interesting that the books have almost doubled in size.<br /><br />Interesting point you make about editors. I usually try to make a pass through my typescripts to cut out every extraneous word, but I don't think I've ever had an editor try to do the same.Zoë Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14065427744062846167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-63739614383516568942017-12-06T05:08:51.195-05:002017-12-06T05:08:51.195-05:00Hi Lesley. I know what you mean, and I always thou...Hi Lesley. I know what you mean, and I always thought of the 11th installment in the Charlie Fox series as a novella because it was around 60,000 words rather than the 100,000+ of the other books in the series. I've always tried to write the shortest book I could, as I don't like padding, either to write or to read. It's always a balance between value for money and boredom!<br />Zoë Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14065427744062846167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-56477338662200670502017-12-06T05:05:15.764-05:002017-12-06T05:05:15.764-05:00Thanks. That is a ballpark figure, but it's he...Thanks. That is a ballpark figure, but it's helpful.<br /><br />As someone who has written non-fiction which at the most hits 1,520 words, I don't have an estimate in book pages.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-56545069950996977812017-12-06T04:57:55.247-05:002017-12-06T04:57:55.247-05:00Hi Kathy. I too like books that don't feel lik...Hi Kathy. I too like books that don't feel like too much of a slog to get through, but very short books can be unsatisfying. I looked up word counts for both the authors you mention. Andrea Camilleri's THE TERRA-COTTA DOG is 109,120 words, but his latest, A NEST OF VIPERS, is 84,320.<br /><br />Donna Leon's debut, DEATH AT LA FENICE is 83,700 words, and this year's EARTHLY REMAINS is 94,240, so one has gone up a little and the other has gone down. Make of that what you will!Zoë Sharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14065427744062846167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-52100402088791157882017-12-04T19:47:47.313-05:002017-12-04T19:47:47.313-05:00 That’s hard to say, Kathy. It depends so much on ... That’s hard to say, Kathy. It depends so much on the design of the interior of the book. How large is the type, how much space at the top of the beginning of the chapter. Things like that to make a big difference. I would guess that 90,000 words is about three hundred pages. But maybe one of my writer friends here will have another guess. Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-41106766437332770722017-12-04T19:12:25.324-05:002017-12-04T19:12:25.324-05:00How many pages are books with 60,000-90,000 words ...How many pages are books with 60,000-90,000 words of 130,000 words?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-15650179922700647742017-12-04T15:12:59.184-05:002017-12-04T15:12:59.184-05:00Our first two, A Carrion Death and The Second Deat...Our first two, A Carrion Death and The Second Death of Goodluck Tinubu came in just over 130,000. Nobody raised an eyebrow. Now we've settled in the 80K to 90K range. However, I do agree that the length is what it takes to tell the story well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-72338352245826839972017-12-04T14:30:59.599-05:002017-12-04T14:30:59.599-05:00I've always been an admirer of the Hemingway, ...I've always been an admirer of the Hemingway, Steinbeck, McCarthy shorter word count novels. Same for Dick Francis. I don't know why that is, though as a lawyer I always said, "If I had more time I'd write less, " but perhaps it's just because they're easier to carry around in a back pocket. Whatever the reason I have to thank the fates for hooking me up with a publisher (Poisoned Pen Press), that wants (perhaps prefers is a better word) its books coming in at between 60,000-90,000 words. Jeffrey Sigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00718317707555064653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-24647384007192252922017-12-04T08:59:04.635-05:002017-12-04T08:59:04.635-05:00Zoe, my first fiction publisher demanded ever lowe...Zoe, my first fiction publisher demanded ever lower word counts, and I think it had nothing to do with the quality of the storytelling. They publish hardcover only, and each year charge an additional dollar. City of Silver--my first--in 2009, was 109K. When submitted Invisible Country at 103K, the demanded that I cut it to 80K. I got it down to 92K and insisted that I needed it at that length, but in that two-book deal they said okay, but then Blood Tango had to be 70K. At 73K it felt sketchy to me. I think the motivation of the publisher was to cut production, warehousing, and shipping costs. I want my publisher to be profitable. I know how difficult that can be in today's publishing world. But I am grateful that my current publisher asked me to expand Idol of Mombasa, which I had first written with that diminish-it demand in mind. It is a better book given the opportunity to enrich the story.<br /><br />I also think about how the Harry Potter series bucked the trend, getting longer as it went along. And how the great JK got nine-year-old boys to read seven hundred-page books. I say that was her greatest magic trick!Annamaria Alfierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311596277267789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-27310145836323584212017-12-03T13:38:51.423-05:002017-12-03T13:38:51.423-05:00A proper story will be told in its own time and in...A proper story will be told in its own time and in its own way. When a writer bows to market forces and tells their story to meet some arbitrary, and changing, standard of length they sacrifice the purity and truth of the story. The story will tell you what it should be. Don't let strangers tell you. They don't know the story. Only you know the story.<br /><br />Honest writing is about telling a story. When writing becomes about money, we have lost the truth of the story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-89553385624609847242017-12-03T12:22:33.144-05:002017-12-03T12:22:33.144-05:00As I seem to remember someone saying, a story shou...As I seem to remember someone saying, a story should be as long as it needs to be and no longer.<br /><br />For me, the length of the story has no bearing, it's the quality of the story that counts. That said, as the quality goes up, I always find myself wishing the story were longer, as I'm rarely ready to leave when the story ends, and as the quality goes down, I find myself wishing the thing would end already.<br /><br />But no surprises there. :-) Myself, I find 60,000 words pretty short, preferring 90,000-150,000 for a novel. Above that, it had better be a VERY good story, VERY well told, and have a VERY good reason for being that long. :-) Too many large books today are large just because lots of words are easier to write on a computer than on a manual typewriter, and editing, in many places, seems to have met with the same downsizing as many other jobs.Everett Kaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12371555243187874414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-902283621071218972017-12-03T12:03:52.082-05:002017-12-03T12:03:52.082-05:00I've been lamenting for years that books are g...I've been lamenting for years that books are getting shorter. I've particularly noticed it in long running series, where the later books are noticeably shorter than the earlier ones. I don't mind too much if I enjoy the book but I notice the prices aren't any lower. It's a bit vexing sometimes to have paid anything from £6-£12 for a book which you finish in hours rather than days. Lesley Khttps://www.facebook.com/Mitchyuknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1990338437877873686.post-16463639170503135722017-12-03T07:20:22.767-05:002017-12-03T07:20:22.767-05:00I'm a mere reader, not a writer, but I like bo...I'm a mere reader, not a writer, but I like books that are between 300 to 350 pages.<br />If I spend time reading a 500-page book, it has to be worth my time. And getting older with aging eyes means more reading time per book. It a long book is boring, I consider it a waste of my reading time. So I avoid that author.<br />I don't like the trend towards very long books. A mystery can be set up, developed and solved in 300 pages or so. <br />I'm a fan of Donna Leon's books and hers are not long, and neither are Andrea Camilleri's wonderful Sicilian mysteries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com